| Dianne | Posted: 08 March 2014 - 09:45 AM |
Dave and I have made a few passes at spirituality in other posts. I hope I'm not overstepping any boundaries in starting this topic. Another thing that has encouraged me in this area is The Gratitude List started by Cory. He asked us to commit to 21 days of listing just 3 things to be grateful for. That was on Feb. 4 of this year. It continued past 21 days and I can see a definite improvement in my way of seeing things. Keeping the list to 3 was an excellent suggestion. Of course we can toss in extras if we want. But for someone like me, an all or nothing person, it was reassurance that a small amount is enough and will have cumulative good effects. As Dave has said ~ I do not wish to lead anyone down a path they consider to be incorrect. Please make your own considered choices about that. I am in complete agreement. What has worked, or not worked, for me are the results of my own lifetime of searching. Each path is unique and individual. What each of us may offer won't be universally appealing. But that variety is part of the beauty of life. | |
Replies (71)
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| G | Posted: 17 December 2014 - 11:56 AM |
HUGS Dianne. At first I read the horse teacher as mean, although are you saying it was ok how he was to you? Sounds pretty touch and go situations to try with the horses. I rode horses as a child, although not your experience leve....just summer camp and whenever family went to the stables. Sometimess they would give such beginner horses, that to make sure I did not get one.....exaggerated about how often I had rode. I did not want to be walking, trotting and at best getting up to a canter....found that boring 🙁 Wanted to galloping throught he fields 🙂 I got a wild horse named "Frisky" who gunned it for the highway! I had beenn taught that when a horwse was not listening and going a way we did not want, you must pull their head back to stop them and also so they cannot see to keep going forward. As well, as you know it makes them go in a circle... Well this horse was so wild that even thought it would go into a circle for awhile an I could handle it's speed and even knew what to do....it was not ready to be rode yet as it kept trying to go for the highway. Actually became a bit of a scary experience. Needless to say, I returned that horse and got another one. It had not been broken in and while I had experience, am thinking it was not ready to be ridden by anyone other than someone who breaks horses in. As far as core strength goes, it can be very subltle movements and holdings(the absolute most beginner appearing stretches and yoga pre-postures) that are responsible to build it actually. That is how the core strength I had at that time had been built and I had health issues, so one would think beuilding a core would have been impossible...not so with the right teacher/patience and effort. Core strength is number one stepping block for all yoga postures. As far as teachers go, we learn from all of our best teachers I find...which do include the ones we would not go back to or put our trust in as well. | |
| Dianne | Posted: 16 December 2014 - 08:51 AM |
Thanks G. I never had much core strength. The only other instructor I ever put my complete trust in was a riding instructor. He put me on young horses in the worst weather conditions ~ hot, cold, stormy and in a training ring along a road where teenagers were known to drive by and throw firecrackers at the riders. I would be terrified. But I trusted in his knowledge of me and my potential. I believed he would never place me on a horse or in a position that I wasn't capable of handling. He had just as much knowledge of his horses' personalities. He once pulled me off a horse for snapping the bit hard in frustration. The horse had been roughly handled by his previous owner and my instructor humiliated me in front of the class for setting the horse's progress back with an immature reaction. The lessons learned under him carried over into other areas of my life and I think that's what makes for a truly great teacher. | |
| G | Posted: 16 December 2014 - 01:17 AM |
Oh Dianne, What a terrible story to hear.... You were wise to withdraw your trust and I am happy again, you are with us today. There are postures that require core strength as well as that connection with the breath which can hold the body, as well......in order to do postures as such. He should not have left you to get out on your own and instead helped teach you how to bring your body into it, step by step over time and of course out. Core strenght is one of the most important things to develop in yoga and does not take fancy complicated postures. Rather the very subtle simple movements with holding. Years ago in one of the yoga classes I atteneded, we had an olympic athlete who could not hold the postures and his body started shaking. We are talking a beginneer posture in which you develop your core strength that might not even look like yoga, although requires the holding. There are many ways to practice yoga that do not involve those complicated postures and in fact if that is all a person thinks yoga is or that those postures are needed to have a real practice, they are very mistaken. HUGS again.... | |
| Dianne | Posted: 24 November 2014 - 12:40 PM |
Dave, my yoga days were over 40 years ago. No poses I would want to practice now. I get a lot of gentle stretching in my everyday activities. I really enjoy washing floors on hands and knees because it's a good, easy stretch. I could use more formal exercise for sure but even cane use (which has been less recently) isn't incentive enough. Little story ~ I was extremely flexible in my younger days and the teacher pushed me beyond the other students physically. There was a pose where you lay flat on your stomach, arms out at right angles, palms down, chin resting on floor. He slowly lifted my legs backwards and bent them over my head until my feet were in front of my face pretty much. All my weight was balanced on my arms, collarbones and chin. I could barely breathe and needed help getting out of the pose. He said use your strength to lift your legs back up to a straight position. I did that but couldn't curl down. It was a hard, bellyflop slam to the floor. My trust in him ended there. I did learn about pranayama (many meanings but basically breathing techniques and the vital life force in all things) which kept popping up in other explorations as a very good thing and kundalini which I personally felt to be an uncomfortable and very frightening feeling. | |
| dave | Posted: 24 November 2014 - 08:29 AM |
Dianne, Are there some yoga poses you could recall that would be good to help you with some basic stretching and to strengthen other muscle groups that would take some strain off your back? ( And is being at the point of Granny clomping around with a cane enough incentive to take the time to do them?) (Speaking as one who is not taking the time to do a little basic meditation.) | |
| Dianne | Posted: 23 November 2014 - 11:48 AM |
Hi Darci, good to hear from you again although I am very sorry you're having such a rough go. Dave/Tillie's advice about meditation is good. There are so many types/levels of meditation. For years I practiced Deepak Chopra's Primordial Sound Meditation. It was pretty involved and the depths/expansion I reached was a little frightening. For me anyway, but it was an excellent practice. Many decades ago I practiced Hatha Yoga which has good breathing techniques along with the poses. Not exactly meditation but good for body, mind and spirit. I was strongly drawn to Native American spirituality with its close connections to nature and animals. Recently (14 years) I went back to my Catholic roots and learned the depths of meditation thru the writings of St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross. A great little book with a simplicity I love is "The Practice of the Presence of God" by Brother Lawrence. Another simple classic is "The Imitation of Christ" by Thomas a Kempis. Those aren't about meditation techniques as we think of them but they are great rules for living a peace filled life. You can read both of those online at catholictreasury.info/library.php Like anything done well meditation must be practiced. I think of a restless, stressed disturbed mind/body/spirit as a young frightened horse or an abused dog or cat. There are many ways to gentle the animal, to settle him down and you have to find what works best for that individual and apply it consistently. For me, at this stage in my like, I don't want to spend 30 minutes twice a day (Deepak Chopra) in meditation. I've found what nourishes me and pay attention to when those needs change so I'm able to flow with another stream when necessary. I generally leave web pages open to quotes by Norman Vincent Peale or other bits of refreshment and encouragement. I repeat little personal mantras or Bible quotes in my head while I work. I start my day and end it with spiritual readings. For me meditation is sometimes physical pausing and breathing to deal with something specific and immediate (like I had to do yesterday). Sometimes it's a short break to step outside for fresh air. It can be a prayer of thanks over a meal. Focused meditation is used by many successful people who have used it for years. There is something that changes in your life and can manifest in material changes. I'm a big believer in "Change your thoughts and you change your world." Peale. For me, I need that constant practice of meditation in the form of changing my perspective. I am, by nature, a pessimistic, fearful person. Instead of watering occasionally I need a tiny stream of spiritual watering all the time. Other excellent reads are Peale's classic "The Power of Positive Thinking" and Chopra's "Seven Spiritual Laws of Success". Wayne Dyer, Charles Stanley, Joel Osteen are good. (Osteen is relentlessly optimistic and who can't use a good dose of that?) Shakti Gawain was a huge influence on me in the late 70's. My sister-in-law sent me a book called "Lessons from a Sheepdog" by Phillip Keller. I totally fell in love with his writings and immersed myself in those for a long time. I love to draw inspiration from the lives of others who have found a way to keep peace in their daily lives. Anyway I have rambled on enough. I'm going to move this reply to the Spirituality thread. I hope it helps! peace and love to you Darci ~~ Dianne | |
| diane | Posted: 14 July 2014 - 01:40 PM |
My spirituality hides when I am stressed, anxious, worrying. So today I am taking deep breaths, allowing myself to be calm and appreciate my life just as it is today. | |
| whew! | Posted: 13 July 2014 - 03:48 PM |
Geneva: -->I am a me minister. I am always afraid of throwing out something the people may need. Oh my gosh! Yes, that thought is constantly in my mind..."What if someone will need this?!" And to be honest, I don't know what the answer is all the time. I just know that me storing so much stuff is actually keeping me from being more available to people who need me. I wonder if me donating items keeps them in circulation, kind of keeps the generosity flowing, so to speak. If someone is in need they will more readily have access to those same non-profit organizations, and I will be more freed up to be of service instead of trapped in my possessions. | |
| whew! | Posted: 13 July 2014 - 03:41 PM |
Roxie, this is quite profound--> "I realize my goals have changed from future planning to trying to get what I have right now clean and organized so my son will not have to have a huge burden to face when I pass. I can hope!" My mother died quite young, which means that at anytime I, too, could, too. I guess we all have numbered days, don't we? Sorting through her prized possessions was therapeutic, but cleaning trash and unknown stuff away would not have been. I don't want anyone to have to trudge through my mess and dirt. Lovingly looking at valued pictures, yes. Having to sort through tons of misc. papers stacked to the hilt on my desk, no. | |
| Roxie | Posted: 12 July 2014 - 04:20 PM |
Barb, thank you so much for posting the Native quote. I must have been Native American in a past life because I can so relate on an emotional level to many Native American beliefs. I look at my kitchen and living room walls and ceilings and floors, all of which are as bad as they were in April 2013 when my de-hoarder crew left (needing deep cleaning, painting, etc.). Over time I have done nothing to them other than convince myself I cannot find someone to help. What if I'd devoted 10-15 minutes per day to that project instead? My guess is I'd have clean, painted, refreshed ceilings, walls and floors. "Easy-go easy." LR, I don't have many "projects" for the remaining possessions, but I get the concept of future planning not based on current reality. Now as I contemplate the end of my life (I expect sooner rather than later), I realize my goals have changed from future planning to trying to get what I have right now clean and organized so my son will not have to have a huge burden to face when I pass. I can hope! | |
| Geneva | Posted: 11 July 2014 - 11:29 PM |
I am a me minister. I am always afraid of throughing out something the people may need. | |
| whew! | Posted: 11 July 2014 - 10:06 AM |
"Instead of thinking of getting rid of some of my clutter as giving up dreams, I might be better off thinking of it as embracing my humanness." Thank you, LR, for such a powerful post...it brought tears to my eyes. I am going through one of my store rooms and ge so stuck on the past projects....this helps so very much. | |
| diane | Posted: 03 July 2014 - 03:54 PM |
LR, THANKS FOR EXPRESSING THIS SO ELOQUENTLY!!!!!! | |
| LR2014 | Posted: 03 July 2014 - 09:38 AM |
A significant amount of my clutter is connected with my unfinished projects or is connected to past or future goals/dreams/plans. Some of us here on the message board have discussed how difficult it is to give up on a goal or a dream. One thing I've come to realize is that taken individually, many of my goals/plans/dreams could (in theory) be fulfilled; however, collectively they cannot all be fulfilled. In other words, it is humanly impossible for me to do all the things my imagination wants to do. I am not superhuman. Sometimes, without realizing it, I am trying to "play God." Without realizing it, I have in the past convinced myself that I can do what no one person alone could possibly do. Instead of thinking of getting rid of some of my clutter as giving up dreams, I might be better off thinking of it as embracing my humanness. I might think of getting rid of some of my things as an outward sign that I am inwardly willing to stop trying to play God. Dreams, goals, and plans are wonderful, but if left to run amuck, they can actually stand in the way of completing worthwhile goals. I will do well today to remember that while my Higher Power can help me accomplish many things, I myself am not some all-powerful God. I do well to seek help and guidance from a power greater than myself. When it comes to the great quantity of goals/plans/dreams I have put in my own head, I do well to turn those over to God and to live happily and joyfully within the limitations of my humanness. | |
| Barb | Posted: 15 June 2014 - 09:55 PM |
Reading everyone's post tonight on the Sunday chat line, the words from my morning meditation kept ringing through my thoughts and I want to share them with you all. So often we get frustrated that we are not getting things cleaned up quickly enough. We want to work faster and get it done sooner. Here are thoughts from Anne Wilson Schaef's devotional Native Wisdom for White Minds, page 33. "Easy, easy---just go easy and you'll finish. It seems illogical, but it is true. | |
| Mar | Posted: 14 June 2014 - 01:35 AM |
Hi all and thank you for your posts. Many times I have feeling guilty for being selfish, keeping things I don't use and other people may need, for having so much attachment... I prefer to buy new items to donate instead of giving something of mine! Saving things for my future children or grandchildren, I used to say that to my mom when she wanted me to get rid of some toys... Also, often I get frustrated when my schedule for the day (if I did any) fails. I need to remember to consider not only my plan, but the God's one too! His plans are always the best 🙂 Tillie said "you are a whole person deserving love and respect". I know this is true about we all, but for some reason I don't feel sure of that when think of myself :-/ Finally, about hoarding, clutter, and much more, I stay with this: I can't. Just for today 😀 Thanks a lot! And right now it is time to sleep, so good night 😉 | |
| Tillie | Posted: 13 June 2014 - 09:41 PM |
To every thing there is a season, | |
| diane | Posted: 11 June 2014 - 05:17 PM |
Step 1: I am powerless over hoarding and my life has become unmanageable. | |
| Tillie | Posted: 11 June 2014 - 05:14 PM |
What I suggest is that you start a new thread | |
| whew! | Posted: 11 June 2014 - 12:54 PM |
I would love to be part of working the 12-steps. I can see how they would be very helpful. Currently my slogans for the day are "First Things First" | |
| Trust God and Clean House | Posted: 11 June 2014 - 05:00 AM |
Wonderful idea. Would love to be included with this if a new chat or place is being used for this purpose. Thanks! | |
| Barb | Posted: 24 May 2014 - 12:02 PM |
Diane and Dianne, | |
| Dianne | Posted: 24 May 2014 - 07:26 AM |
Diane, that's a wonderful idea. We'd probably have to tweak it a bit to serve our purposes. There are some things I'm reluctant to post on a board the world can see but if we have deeper issues to share we could do chats or even private emails for those who are interested. I have been getting back into the 12 steps recently and haven't found a group in real life that quite fits my needs and time availability. Other thoughts, friends? | |
| diane | Posted: 23 May 2014 - 05:34 PM |
after reading past few days again, was wondering if anyone would like to start a new thread and go through the 12 steps for hoarding, I think we could learn alot from each other. Please let me know what you think about it | |
| Dianne | Posted: 23 May 2014 - 09:41 AM |
That should have read ~~ thank you for helping melearn important lessons. | |
| Dianne | Posted: 23 May 2014 - 09:39 AM |
Diane, your post was like looking at myself. LR, I'm still thinking about your *save the world* mentality insight from May 13. Mine is more *save each individual*. I read what sounded like a specific message from God to me this morning concerning that attitude. I'll copy it here later. In the meantime to all those throughout my life who have gently refused my help I thank you for helping learn important lessons. Barb, thank you for the beautiful verse. | |
| Barb | Posted: 23 May 2014 - 07:50 AM |
Sometimes I Google the Verse for the Day. This was listed for yesterday, but it is just what I need to hear at the end of a week when I did not get as much accomplished as I had planned. Maybe someone else out there needs to hear it too. 2 Corinthians 4: 16-18 | |
| LR2014 | Posted: 22 May 2014 - 08:12 PM |
I relate a lot to what you said, diane. I'll do all kinds of things if it's for someone else. I think that years ago, at a subconscious level, I felt that spending time cleaning just for me was a selfish use of time. (Mind you that I thought that at a subconscious level, not necessarily consciously.) I felt I "should" be using my time (a disproportionate amount of my time) helping this person or that, doing job-related work, working toward this noble cause or that noble cause, etc. Fortunately, I now view "selfishness" in a different manner. A lot of the things that I once labeled as selfish are simply things that "typical" people automatically do for themselves. I've had to revisit my outlook on the word "selfish." On another topic, I was thinking earlier today that I have a lot of willpower in certain areas of my life. By now, though, I have certainly proved to myself that on my own, I am powerless over clutter/hoarding-related issues. In my own case, for those issues, the power definitely has to come from outside of me! I spent some time earlier today doing some writing/journaling on step one when it comes to the topic of clutter/hoarding. I'm glad that I don't have to be stuck forever on step one! There is help and hope. I believe that God loves me just as I am, and that God loves me too much to want me to stay just as I am! | |