Hi, just went through this thread. As Tillie and Subclinical know, I hang out a lot in the Daily Chat. But tonight here I am.

Stuck In the Middle, I am amazed at your story. Even if things took a turn of regression with your people and you went through a time of suffering - I do feel things will improve again. Hang onto hope, realistically of course, but do have some hope.

I'm a hoarder trying to become a minimalist. I have ADHD and OCD, and a bunch of other Ds, LOL. I'm a hot mess. I've been hanging out with these amazing people on these boards since 2015. Got to meet Cory when he came to my town a few years back, that was cool.

One thing I can offer as a way of understanding the hoarder brain is that many of us suffer from difficulties in the "executive function" department.

One of those difficulties is - wait for it... decision making! I get really stressed trying to make decisions. I make crappy decisions, the sort that got me into this hoarder mess, the sort that result in my backsliding even when I thought I was really committed to a new way of life, and the sort that hang me up when I'm in the middle of a decluttering session trying to figure out whether to get rid of a single piece of paper.

Hope that helps to know. You can Google "executive function of the brain" if you want to learn more.

It really helps me, as a hoarder in recovery so to speak, to hear the painful truth about how it affects other people. I know it in my mind but I sometimes need to feel it more in my heart so that I'll continue to be motivated.

Being a single person, I fight a different, yet similar, battle. It's between the hoarder side of me and the side that wants a better life. The hoarder side can really push back; that's been my most recent lesson in all this. The wanting a better life me can get discouraged and demoralized when the hoarder pushes back, and when other life stresses sap my energy to fight the battle at all.

I don't want my relatives to have to see my hoard if I should die. I don't want to ruin my chances of enjoying life - I want to reclaim my life.

Anyway, I'm rooting for all of us here. Steady as she goes.

Sometimes, many times compromise is the only way to get anywhere.

Compromise... It feels more like defeat. But at least I made some progress and set firm boundaries.

Yes, keep your priorities straight.
You are your number one priority.

I had to compromise too.
The inside of the house except his bedroom are my "NO CLUTTER ZONES" that I keep clean & tidy.
The huge garage, carport and most all the yard are his places to hoard.

At least we have our decluttered and clean home places to live in. (((hug)))

Thanks. I never really left. Well, except to take some time to myself to rest and repair my mind.

I felt like it was important to share what happened and to encourage others that are struggling that they should seek help. Don't do it alone. I had no help. I only had this forum, educational books, and online research. I was fighting this battle of 2 hoarders all by myself. Although I was strong for a long time, the burden of it all finally broke me. It wasn't wise of me to take on this incredibly huge battle all by myself. So, yes, get professional help some way some how if you decide to fight the hoarding battles. Please.

I realized now that I can no longer be The Therapist, The Motivator, The Cheerleader, The Praiser, The Teacher, The Caretaker, The Organizer, The Planner, and The Go-Go-Goer. These are too many hats for one person to wear. I am better now and I will continue to take care of myself, which includes an entire and continuously clean house that I reclaimed some time ago.

While my MIL continues to randomly sort and donate, it is at an extremely slow pace, but she's doing it.

My husband...he has stopped cleaning out his shop all together. He has no self motivation, so I have no hope for future progress. He's lazy by nature, but he does respect the house and actually helps with the chores now.

All in all I won some and I lost some. I'm not complaining. I'm just not going to focus on their hoarding issues anymore. I'm focusing on me now. Me first. 😊

Wishing all of you the best. ((Hugs))

Welcome back Stuck In The Middle 😀

Sorry you went through that.
Only good thing is we often return from such an experience stronger than we were before.
(((HUG)))

Update: I had a mental breakdown. My recommendation: Get professional help. No matter how strong you think you are, you cannot do this without professional help. It. Is. Too. Difficult. I. Am. Back. To. Ground. Zero.

Thank you Tillie. It is nice to know someone is listening. It is also nice to give hope to those that are struggling.

Hi Stuck in the middle 🙂

That's really great to hear!
Slow but steady is an ideal way for him to declutter.
YEA! for MIL finding more to donate!
Hang in there, they seem to be really working on it. 🙂

My husband finally recognized AND admitted to being a hoarder. Now he understands. Progress on his solo cleanup in his shop is slow but it is regular progress at a pace that works for him.

MIL is still progressing; she has moved on to donating items from more than just closets.

I am working through it. Not easy. But. I am not giving up.

Hello Sammie

The best books that I have used are
"Digging Out" and
"Buried In Treasures"

So far a finding good groups in your area I would ask around...
Ask a professional cleaning company that deals with hoarding.
Maybe find out about a local group through online message boards.

Good luck and best wishes 🙂

What are the best books to use or groups that I can attend. I'm in Philadelphia

Still...more progress. More loads of "things" hauled away. Literally,TONS.

Now...Now I am working on my own mental *trust*. We all deserve that.

Well said Tillie.

The self help books written by the professionals who work in the field are written to help people learn to retrain themselves.
Learn and re-train themselves to no longer hoard or clutter or allow their house to fall into squalor.

Every method takes time and at times is very hard but they can work through all the hard emotions and any unwarranted negative feelings.

Some people benefit from attending hoarding/clutter groups where they learn to retrain themselves.
It's all about changing habits into more beneficial habits.

Correction to my last post:

...I don't want people out there reading this thread to find false hope or *be discouraged* if they already discovered that professional therapy and training didn't work for them. ...

Perhaps.

As with each and every hoarding situation, all are unique and complex on many levels. It would not be wise of me to list the deep details of my situation here. But in a nutshell, my MIL received years of professional help, only for it to go in one ear and out the other. With all do respect to my MIL, she's stubborn by nature, set in her ways, and often has the mind of a child. Some days she has no attention span at all. But. My MIL is continuing to reduce her "things" "one closet at a time".

My husband is showing signs of Alzheimer's and this often results in childlike behaviors. But we are from a generation that fixes what's broken - not just give up. We have always put our children first. And what makes progress with him possible is that we both have a common goal: We know what we don't want to burden our children with. He has started reducing junk from his shop...All. By. Himself.

My MIL and my husband are both fragile at times; can be crazy-mean other times; and are very loving, agreeable, and cooperative at other times. They both have triggers. Sometimes I walk on eggshells. Sometimes we all laugh and laugh and laugh together. We have good days, bad days, slow days, and go days.

I don't believe a specific method or all methods work for everyone and not all people fit-the-mould. That's why I've had to think outside of the box and gather tools from many different sources to keep trying. I found new tools here, applied them (along with all my other tools) and we all seem to be making progress. Patience and repetition is a big part of this.

As for me, I don't drink or do drugs. I don't self medicate. I don't take perscription drugs. The emotional journey is raw and real. And dang hard. This forum was literally my saving grace. My last hope. To be able to share, be heard, learn, and grow holds immense value in my well being.

The kick-starter that got the ball rolling (in my situation) was learning that brains are wired differently and hoarders *see* differently. I thought, well, if they *see* differently then they must *hear* differently too. So I learned to speak in ways that they could *really hear* me. It's working.

I don't want people out there reading this thread to find false hope if they already discovered that professional therapy and training didn't work for them. It's not for everyone. But that doesn't mean they can't find the tools that do work. Don't give up. Keep trying. Just remember, the battle is real. The battle is extremely hard. But I am proof that progress and improvements and headway can be made. Is it permanent? I can't answer that. I don't think I ever will be able to answer this question until I learn to trust it.

(((Hope Hugs)))

Without therapy or intense training, which is what therapy consists of,
a person who hoards or who is chronically disorganized will fall back into their old habits.

To change behavior takes practice and time.
People who never learned how to do general housekeeping need to be taken by the hand and taught.
It's the repetition of these tasks that over time build new habits.

It's too mentally challenging to try to build a whole bunch of new habits all at once.
Best way is to do only one or three new habits every month or more, depending.

To change a lifetime of habits takes patience and repetition.

Hi Tillie,

Ya. I do.

Ah, good! 👍 A more manageable garden and drop cookies; that makes me happy for you! 😊

Thoughts:

Progress ... hinted with frustrating signs of a hoarder's mindset. My hope is so soaked with doubt that failure is my most feared element in this journey...only because I do not want to be given no choice but to walk away from loved ones. But I am struggling deeply.

Through so much physical and emotional pain,
I have finally reclaimed the entire house...to my standards. Sanitized. Clean. Organized. Simple. Minimal. Functional.

Will it last?

Loads and loads of "things" donated.

Today my husband admitted to being the happiest that he has ever been in this house since we have lived here. He said that he, "Understands Now".

My husband also said that he is now going to, "...Start cleaning out his shop".
This will be the TRUE test. HIS true test.
I. Will. Not. Help. Him.

My MIL said that she is working on cleaning out more, "One closet at a time."

Am. I. Wrong. To. Not. Trust. After all of these years in the battle of hoarders?

I Hesitate with Hope.

Hi
Yes there are moves forward and times when nothing moves.
Take the set backs in stride, be patient, move on to something that may be easier for them.

Heavens no I did not give up my garden
just scrolled it back to what I can more easily keep up with.
Trees, lilac hedge, honeysuckle and flowering plants plus a small patch of grass to cool the air in Summertime.
The cookie cutters & cookie press are gone but this does not prevent me from making drop cookies.
I still have all the things I enjoy but it's better now.

I'm so proud of them! I still have doubts though when the process is tainted with set backs. I try to reassure myself with hope.

I haven't heard of the YouTube video. Thank you for suggesting it! Sounds like that would be another great tool to use. There is not one single item my MIL doesn't hoard. You name it, including food.

Good for you! *clapping* I did exactly what you listed. It is very freeing, yes! 😊 Less to dust and clean too!
Preparing for death might seem odd to some people. I believe it is necessary and responsible.

No cookies. No garden. ... Sometimes we can give up too much. I hope you haven't let go of all your joys. I refuse to give up my hiking and community service. They give me strength and purpose. I do hope you still have at least that much left. 🤗

Ya, I'll go watch it now. Thanks again Tillie!

YEA! for another car load!!! 😀

WAY TO GO! for MIL letting go of so much!

Great that all this is GONE and not tempting anybody to go through it and pull stuff out.

An interesting book and some Youtube videos is
"The Gentle Art Of Swedish Death Cleaning".
It's not depressing or morbid.
Doesn't dwell on death & dyeing.
It's about letting go of unnecessary possessions that you don't need any longer so that somebody else doesn't have to do it if/when you die.
It's for anybody of any age but mainly for someone's who's been around 40 or 60 years and has a houseful.
With a large family you cook/bake a lot but when they grow up & move out you don't really need all the kitchen stuff any longer.
Furnishings that no longer serve you.
Anything you still have from any hobby or activity you no longer do, etc.

This is what I have spent the last year (2019) doing for myself and have found it very freeing.
No longer feeling like I need to make fancy decorated cookies for anybody because there is nobody to eat them but me.
Also eliminated a lot of gardening that was becoming too much for me physically.
I never promised anybody a rose garden anyways. ;p

Check out Youtube "Swedish Death Cleaning" and see if any of this philosophy helps MIL when you are helping her declutter. 🙂

Another car load of donations. Gone.

MIL filled 6 large garbage bags with things to donate. Gone.

Win-Win!

The Year of the Purge.
I hope.

I am The Therapist.
The unqualified therapist.
I have no choice.
It is difficult.

I pray often.
I purge emotional pain through tears while in solitude.
I pray again.

It was another 12 hour day working hard to purge items while I have the rare opportunity of cooperation.

"Keep going."
"Push through it."
"Try harder."
"Work, work, work."
"Am I weak?"
"Am I strong enough?"
"Pfft. Toughen Up."
"Fight the battle."
"You. Will. Win."
"Determination."
"Goals...Meet them!"

These are just a few thoughts in my brain that go unspoken.

I. Am. So. Very. Tired.

I only post today for those whom are struggling in silence and feel alone. I hear your pain while you read this.
Even though the shame is too deep to share it here.
You. Are. Not. Alone.
There will be many hard days.
Remember, not all days are bad days.
Don't. Give. Up.

(((Hope Hugs)))

Exactly, Tillie!

(((Hope Hugs)))

That's the thing about the people here.
Even when they are paralyzed, at a stand still
they are all still trying.

They give me the will to go on.
They keep my spirit and my hope alive.

There are and will be days, weeks, months where nothing is done.
No decluttering or cleaning.
But even then they are all truly still trying and eventually will find their will to continue on.

(((((HUGS)))))

Hi Subclinical,

"Suckyness" ... That's cute. Sharing "suckyness" is incredibly difficult for me. But I do reach out when I can no longer find the tools that I need to fix what is broken.

Thank you but it is far from amazing and I couldn't do it alone. It is a team effort. "They" are amazing!

This hoarding battle with my husband has gone on for over two decades and it was only semi-recently that the hoarding battle was compounded by a second hoarder (my MIL). Major overkill in my book. So I reached out for help and it was the people here, in this forum, who helped me find the tools that I needed to get the ball rolling again.

Sometimes not all of the right tool(s) are found in books or in psychology or psychiatry. Sometimes the right tools are found in each other, from within, and from sharing. Please know that you contributed. You helped Us. Thank you.

I do believe that it is not the pace or the number of items hauled away that are important. What is important (to me) is "trying". Now that's pretty dang cool. It sounds like you are trying and you are doing a great job! That is commendable. *High-Five*

Yesterday was very ugly, but today was a good day. We are all back on track. Progress.

As my heart daughter and I say to each other - because we are each the only person the other knows who will not try to be comforting in such situations: "some things just suck." Sometimes it is good to just have someone else know about the suckyness.

I think that what you are doing and what you have done is amazing. Your ability to get them to work with you is amazing!

There is no way I could have sustained motivation this long when I began. Maybe a few hours. And then later, maybe a day.

This summer I think I worked every day for two straight weeks before I took a break and that was maybe ten years in? And I was not getting rid of carloads every day!

yeah, I get it.

heavy sigh...