A thought on the kitchen - one way in would be to ask if you can come cook something for her or come have her teach you how to cook something she makes that she knows is good. Then start very slowly with something like "hey, do you mind if I bag up some of this food packaging and take it out? It makes me nervous this close to the stove." Or "I'd really like a little more table space to take notes" or whatever.

If she thinks something has to be managed a certain way, do that. Offer to do it for her, under her supervision. If you spend the entire visit disassembling a milk carton and cleaning it to her satisfaction. That is ok. You have to meet her where she is. Once she feels comfortable with you in that place you can start having conversations about ways that place could be better - maybe you checked with the recycling company (do it, don't lie!) and they promised that the carton could be recycled as long as it was just rinsed out - can we try that? It would give us back a lot of time to do xyz, or it would make the recycling easier for you so you could get more stuff recycled, or whatever might seem like a step in the right direction for her. If she's saving it for a craft, schedule a time to come back and do the craft with her. Also, if you don't have time to actually do the cooking, reschedule that. Every time you come, try to leave the space in better order, but do not criticize her housekeeping or make a big deal about the mess, just address a small piece of it. Imagine you are asking a friend "hey, do you mind if I move your bag? I'm afraid my dog will chew it" - no big deal, I'm the source of the problem, but can you help me out by letting me avoid it?

This will not be fast. There is a lot of inertia. The first steps might not be noticeable for a long time, which is why people give up. But once things start moving it becomes easier and easier to build momentum. It was over a year of hard work before my Dh saw any difference. If I had had to count on him for encouragement instead of having this group to talk to, I would have given up - again.

Another thing to watch out for is opportunities to help her stop bringing things in. Stopping or cutting off the inflow is an important early step.

I think you're right, it might be better to start cleaning somewhere else. I feel like that may be more motivating for her. Right now she's sleeping on a couch she's had for 25 years and that plays a huge part in her back pain. She's been talking about getting a hospital bed put in her house but I think that would be the worst thing for her. She only wants the hospital bed because then she could have my stepfather set it up instead of needing people to come into the house to deliver a new bed or couch.

I still don't think she sees herself as a hoarder, and I fear my suggestion to come to this site would cause her to be angry.

I certainly don't want to give up on her. I will start suggesting the things you said - putting the boxes in a storage unit or just starting with the kitchen.

Your help has been so amazing - I really appreciate you.

I don't think anyone wants to be given up on.

I started to say that I thought for a while my husband gave up on me - but he kept fighting with me, and if you are fighting with someone, some part of you believes change is possible. But he definitely stopped trying to help. Because he couldn't help in the way I needed.

For a long time I would only work on things when faced with outside pressure I couldn't control. And I would get really upset. Eventually I started to want it more for me. And the group here really helped. Because they are capable of giving you support for the things that just exasperate "normal" people and that you have to work through.

Maybe you should give up on the big clean for now, I don't know that the basement is the best place to start (especially if the cleaning crew is just going to put new things down there.) some people start better underneath and sone on the surface.

How is the kitchen? Her bed? You probably don't know?

Would she come talk to us? (That might be hard since you have been here and she would know you could see what she writes, but maybe she could seek out a different group?) maybe she would just come read here? (You can't delete your posts.)

I am not religious in the traditional sense, but Lila and CM are. They might have perspectives informed by that that would help her..

Your perspective on this is really helpful and is allowing me to see it totally different. I get that feeling and it makes sense.

In your opinion - should I keep trying to help her? I don't want to give up but she has told me not to talk to her about it anymore and I just can't seem to help myself because I want the best life for her while she's still around. I hate watching her get worse and worse. If it were you, would you want someone to keep trying deep down?

So, here is my take on the boxes as a hoarder.

The flood is paralyzing. In my mind, whatever is in the boxes would be very important. And also probably destroyed. But as long as I don't look in the boxes I can just pretend that everything is ok. If I have to look in the boxes, I have to face that the things are destroyed, and I will never get them back, and it is all my fault for having them in the basement in the first place. And my brain would just keep catastrophising. I wouldn't want to look at what was in the boxes, because I would believe that there was probably something in the boxes that I had forgotten about, but that when I saw it, I would remember, and I would be devastated that it was destroyed.

I would resist looking in the boxes really hard. Which is silly, because the worst case scenario would be that everything in the boxes was lost to me, which is exactly what the situation is if you never again open the boxes. But somehow, if you don't open the boxes, you can also hold onto the idea that you have the thing, and it might be ok. The loss hasn't really happened yet.

Looking in the boxes requires you to face reality and process emotions. Even though I have been there before (multiple floods) and I know that sometimes you even get pleasantly surprised that things aren't as bad as you expected, I still expect the worst.

For a hoarder, the things aren't just things. They are the memories of people, and events, and places, and hopes, and it feels like those are being torn away when the thing is lost.

Thank you for your response! So, when the cleaning company came in, they decided that the right strategy would be to clean out the basement, due to a flood that occurred that was never taken care of. This way, they'd be able to move some of the things she has upstairs to the downstairs as well. There are probably around 30 boxes she wants to go through before they come in and start cleaning so she can decide whether she wants to keep them or not. She hasn't looked at what's inside for probably 20+ years, but thinks she might need or want something inside of them. I've offered to move the boxes, but she will not allow me inside of her house. I know she's ashamed and I get it. But I also know she will continue to put this off and it will never get done. But I do like the idea of transporting all the boxes to a storage unit! I might have to pay for it, but I would if it would mean she would start this process. I don't know if she will accept help from anyone. I fear she is too proud. I have tried to get her involved with a ministry somehow - she always canceled. My step father who does not technically live there (they're not married, just have been together for the past 30 years!) would like to get things situated but he definitely suffers from the same hoarding addiction.

Hi Kylee,

I'm unclear on the boxes- the cleaning company won't come until your mother takes care of the boxes, or your mother won't let the cleaning company come until after she takes care of the boxes?

How many boxes? Can you offer to move the boxes to a different storage location and then bring them back after the house is thoroughly cleaned? Either all at once (at least just the basement will be bad) or one at a time to be sorted out?

Would she be willing to accept help for her depression from a pastor or other church resource? Is there some job that she could be asked to take on for the church? Even a small thing that would increase her sense of purpose and community?

Where is your stepfather in this?